Gobsmacked by Flat Earth Theory – Reflections upon just 2 months of flat earth debunking


I have been actively engaged in debunking flat earth theory arguments for the last couple of months. At this point, we are only 3 days away from the Flat Earth International Conference https://fe2017.com/  FEIC 2017 to be held in Raleigh North Carolina. The precise location is 201 Harrison Oaks Blvd, Cary, NC at 35.833, -78.772 on the spherical earth map but at a TBD (to be determined) location on the flat earth map. And a trivial point of curiosity is that it happens to be exactly 43.2 miles or 66.6 km, sorry just kidding, 69.5 km (great-circle distance) from Hightowers, North Carolina (36.327, -79.244 on the spherical earth map).


Hightowers North Carolina

Are we really on the path to the total destruction of the globular earth as so many have come to know and love for so long? In just a few days? I offer some reflections. But first,


Two nights ago I was doing some calculations on this flat earth theory stuff, and I was gob-smacked by the results I got. It showed how obviously ridiculous some of the claims of the flat earth advocates have been. So I have got to share that with you. I am sure I am not the first to have discovered this, but since I had never actually done these exact calculations before, I was surprised to discover how far off from reality some major flat earth promulgations have been. I was gobsmacked.


I discovered that on the equinox on the flat earth model, from anywhere on the equator the sun will rise exactly in the north-east, and at sunrise it will appear at an angle of 35 degrees up from the horizontal. (On the spherical earth in this case the sun rises exactly east and on the horizon.) Furthermore, from either the north pole or the southern ring the sun will appear at an angle of 45 degrees up from the horizontal. (This is clearly not what is seen from the poles on the spherical earth.) Again, I was gobsmacked. Later in this post I will present the details of how these things were determined, after I give my reflections on my two months of opposition to the flat earth movement, the immovable BM that just won’t flush.


When I first started listening to the current flat earth advocacy movement about one and one half years ago, I have to admit that I was taken in by some of the arguments, even though there were some arguments that seemed immediately and clearly false to me (like the gravity is just buoyancy and density argument), and since I have been a student of conspiracy theories for many years, and many advocating this flat earth theory were also students of conspiracy theories with whom I would probably agree on many things, I kind of wanted the flat earth theory to be true, and was kind of rooting for them at first.

But once I started to do some of my own really serious research a little over two months ago and discovered that there were some truly fatal problems with flat earth theory as it was being promulgated, and especially when I discovered that literalist Bible believing Christians appeared to be a strong force behind this current flat earth movement


Celebrate Truth

I felt compelled that I had to speak out, so I started my blog.

I have concentrated upon doing my own research and coming to my own conclusions rather than taking in a lot of information from others who have been working on debunking flat earth theory for quite some time. I have had some limited communication with other flat earth debunkers, but not much. I am sure that probably most if not all of the conclusions I have come to, are in agreement with these others, as they should be, as math and science and logic form a system that has been proven over hundreds of years to be quite consistent with itself and reality.

So at this point, I have not refuted every single flat earth argument that has been proposed. It is kind of like playing wack-a-mole. If I ever find that I discover a flat earth argument that I either agree with or am not able to refute, I will certainly report my findings, as any good and honest scientist should do.

So here are some of the things I have learned from my serious involvement in the flat earth theory controversy over the last couple of months.

Flat earth advocates have a lot of arguments that seem to make some sense on the surface.

When you refute them, they do not answer back, or if they do it is not in a substantive manner, but instead involves throwing out vague arguments and/or insults.

Most of the time when I have made polite but substantive refutations on flat earther Youtube channels, I have found that my comments are not allowed.

When you point out to flat earth advocates problems with the azimuthal equidistant map that they for the most part have been vigorously using to promulgate their flat earth theory, the more knowledgeable ones will say that they know there are problems with that map, and they are still working on getting an accurate flat earth map.

Well I am sorry, but many if not most of their arguments that they have been putting out to justify flat earth theory have depended upon that map and their acceptance of it. If they now say that there are problems with the map that they are still working on solving, it is really like they are saying that most if not all of their previous arguments have been spurious, but “we are still committed to a flat earth as the Bible clearly teaches us, so please continue listening to us and be patient, and eventually we will prove that the earth really is flat, scientifically.”

And how flat is the flat earth? At least those in the spherical earth camp can tell you how spherical the spherical earth is. It is very close to a perfect sphere, but not quite. It is so close to a perfect sphere that assuming it is a perfect sphere for calculational purposes is plenty accurate for most purposes.


World Geodetic System WGS84

Have those in the flat earth movement not been deceptively raising false expectations in their followers in this flat earth concept for far too long? Have they no shame? How much money are people making off of this movement? Is it a money making scam preying on the gullible, mathematically and scientifically illiterate, and especially on the conspiracy minded population?

I have simply gotten to the point where I will seldom watch flat earther videos anymore. They simply do not deliver what they promise, so for the most part they are click bait.

I have debunked, rockets cannot work in space, the oceans would have been sucked into space, gravity is just buoyancy and density, and you cannot possibly see the planet Mercury from the earth according to spherical earth and solar system theory.

I have heard some of the most ridiculous arguments from flat earth advocates. Like they have special airline planes in the southern hemisphere that can fly 900 miles per hour, and that there is no such thing as a sound barrier.


If one discovers that they have been deceived by someone, I think it is normal to feel some anger toward those who did the deceiving. So to the extent that I bought into some of the flat earth arguments, bought and read some of the books, and spent a lot of time watching their videos, I do have some anger towards these people. The ones who I am the most upset with are those who are knowingly peddling information that they know to be false, for some reason, whether it is for making money off of gullible and scientifically illiterate people, or whether they are paid government agents seeking to infiltrate and destroy legitimate truth movements and students of real conspiracies. For those who have been taken in and have become real believers that the earth is flat I have more sympathy for, for we are all as human beings subject to error and being deceived.

Maybe one of the first things that should be announced at the flat earth conference is an apology for all of the false arguments that they have previously been pushing so hard, but now, finally, are having to abandon, because they just don’t add up.

I have a certain amount of anger toward Christian preachers who have been preaching the “turn or burn” gospel which I grew up hearing and have since after many years of study come to not believe. I realize that probably a large portion of these are people who mean well and truly believe what they are teaching is the truth. But they have been guilty of the sin of claiming to be sure about something that no one could possibly be sure about, and they should have known better, but again, this is what deception does to people.

Flat earth advocates are guilty of a worse sin in that they are claiming to be sure about something that can and has been proven to be false. I feel that they are simultaneously committing blasphemy against God and science, if that is possible.


Can we imagine the hatching of a plan deep in the bowels of the intelligence agencies prior to the recent resurrection of the flat earth movement? (I say resurrected because there was a flat earth movement 150 years ago uncannily similar to the movement of today as documented in the book “Flat Earth: The History of An Infamous Idea” by historian Christine Garwood.) My review of her book on Amazon is here


Hightower review of “Flat Earth: The History of An Infamous Idea”

Could the hatching of such a plan have possibly been expressed something like this. “We have convinced most people that we went to the moon. We have convinced most people that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone nut assassin of JFK, that 9-11 was a conspiracy of Osama Bin Laden and 19 Arab hijackers and a few more, and countless other cover stories for the gullible masses for operations that we actually planned and carried out. Now we are going to convince a large portion of people that the earth is flat, and the people who for the most part we will convince of this are students of conspiracy theories who have seen through so many of our other lies, such as the moon landings that we faked. Do you believe we can do this? No way. OK, you just watch us.” Could NASA actually be in favor of the flat earth movement because it will somehow help them maintain the lie that we actually went to the moon, once the flat earth movement, that places so much emphasis on the moon landings having been faked, crashes and burns?


The Guardian article on Flat Earth Believers from 2016


Man may have made some wrong turns in philosophy, science, religion, and theology, and other areas, but that does not nullify large portions of these areas of study that have a large portion of truth in them. Some flat earthers say that because NASA faked the moon landings we know that the entire space program is fake. I am sorry, but this is not sound logic. This would be like saying that because our government lied to us about the JFK assassination, that they lie to us about everything. They lie to us about a lot, but not everything.


So I was looking into comparing spherical earth theory to flat earth theory for the equinox, that we just had on September 23, 2017.

And to make it simple I decided to look at this from the standpoint of an observer at the equator. On the equinox, if you are anywhere on the equator, the sun will rise exactly in the east, at solar noon it will be exactly overhead, and it will set exactly in the west. You can view this as either the sun stationary and the earth rotating once every 24 hours, or as the earth stationary and the sun going around the earth once every 24 hours. Geometrically it makes no difference how you view it. So this means that from your point of view on the equator with the sun directly overhead at solar noon, you will see the sun moving or going around at an angular rate of 360 degrees per 24 hours, which works out to 1 degree per every 4 minutes or 0.25 degrees per minute.

Now in order to compare this to what the flat earth model would dictate, I will make it so the sun will be directly overhead at solar noon at every point on the equator. This means that the sun is circling over the flat disk shaped earth (with the north pole at the center and the equator 6218 miles from the north pole) exactly over the equator and making one complete circuit every 24 hours.

The circumference around the equator of the flat earth is 39,071 miles. The sun is therefore traveling at a speed of 39,071/(24*60) = 27.1 miles per minute. Equating angular rate of sun movement between spherical and flat models, for they must be the same because this is what an observer on the earth sees, gives this equation 0.25*(PI/180) = 27.1/As where As is the altitude of the sun on the flat earth model. Solving for As gives an altitude of the sun of 6218 miles. So on the flat earth from the observer at a point on the equator, if they go back in time 6 hours before solar noon, the sun will be seen rising in exactly the north-east direction. So right here we see that the flat earth model is far removed from the reality of what one actually observes from the equator on the equinox, that the sun rises in exactly the east direction. Since the sun is at the same altitude as the distance from the north pole to the equator, an observer at the north pole would see the sun at an angle of 45 degrees from the horizontal, and an observer at the south pole (southern ring for flat earth model) would also see the sun at the same angle of 45 degrees from the horizontal, both of these predicted observations of the flat earth model being very far removed from reality.

The hypotenuse of the right triangle with two equal sides of 6218 miles is 8794 miles. This means that the equatorial observer will see the sun rising in exactly the north-east direction at an angle of arctan (6218/8794) = 35.3 degrees up from the horizontal. The hypotenuse of this right triangle is calculated to be 10,770 miles, so this would be the distance from the equatorial observer to the sun when it is rising. This again demonstrates how flat earth theory predictions are very far from reality.


Flat Earth Tri-Location – Former NASA engineer presents rigorous derivation of previously reported discovery

Warning: The following is satire. It could be viewed as blasphemous to some religious zealots (as I once was). Read at your own risk.  If you are easily offended by satire, and not at all able to make fun of yourselves and your fellow earthians, whether flat or spherical or undeclared, as well as your creator God if you so believe, and religion, especially of the narrow-minded type, then you should stop reading right now.  Get thee quickly far from here.  You have been warned.  Future complaints from those who proceed to read without heed and are offended by the satire will be ignored.


As promised in the previous announcement of this discovery in flat earth theory made on October 17, 2017, the detailed derivation is given below of tri-location on the flat earth. It is shown that while one is present on the flat earth, they are actually simultaneously present in three distinct places, dubbed primary, secondary, and tertiary, hence tri-located on the flat earth.  This derivation is presented to all flat earth researchers and other more mainstream scientists and others for open peer review.


First consider longitude. Whether you are on the spherical earth map or the flat earth map if you travel west to east (or vice versa) your position will change in longitude.  In both cases if you travel a total of 360 degrees of longitude you will end up right back where you started.  On the spherical earth the earth rotates once every 24 hours.  If you used a reference frame of a stationary (non-rotating) spherical earth the sun would appear to be circling around the earth once every day traversing a total of 360 degrees of the earth’s longitude each day.  On the flat earth the sun is considered to be circling above the stationary flat earth and around the north pole so that in one day it traverses a total of 360 degrees of the earth’s longitude.  So longitude is consistent between the spherical earth and flat earth models.  If you define zero longitude as the prime meridian through the Royal Observatory at Greenwich London for both spherical and flat models, longitude would have to be perfectly equivalent between both models.  That means that if you are at a certain longitude on the spherical earth model, you would have to be at the same longitude on the flat earth model.


Now consider latitude. Whether you are on the spherical earth map or the flat earth map if you travel south to north (or vice versa) your position will change in latitude.  In both cases if you start at any point on the equator and travel north a total of 90 degrees of latitude you will end up at the north pole.  The distance you will have traveled from equator to the north pole will have been the same whether on the spherical model or the flat model.  Latitude is defined as zero at the equator and positive as you go north.  Latitude is defined as negative as you go south from the equator.  So on the spherical model if you start at the equator and travel south to -90 degrees latitude you will end up at the south pole.  On the flat model if you start anywhere on the equator and travel south to -90 degrees latitude, instead of ending up at a point you end up on the “polar” ring.  But the distance traveled from equator to south pole on the spherical model will be the same as the distance traveled from the equator to the “polar” ring on the flat model.  And that distance is also the same as the distance from the north pole to the equator (same whether sphere or flat as earlier established).  It is clear from the above that latitudes are equivalent whether on a spherical or flat model.  Therefore if you are at a certain latitude on the spherical earth model, you must also be at the same latitude on the flat earth model.


So based on the above two paragraphs, when you are at a certain latitude and longitude according to the spherical earth map, you are actually at the same latitude and longitude on the flat earth. So when you realize that you are on the Flat Earth, this is the primary place where you are, at the same latitude and longitude as you would be if you were on the imaginary spherical earth.  But beyond this, is where it really starts to get interesting and exciting.


This is where it really helps to take some of your own measurements right where you live to make this as real to you as possible. For me, I live in San Jose, CA, so I used my car and its odometer to measure the distance between two defined points of longitude on a street that runs east-west, as well as between two defined points of latitude on a street that runs north-south.  From this data you can calculate the south to north gradient in terms of miles traveled per degree of latitude, as well as the west to east gradient in terms of miles traveled per degree of longitude. For the two gradients I got 69.1 miles traveled per degree of latitude, and 55 miles traveled per degree of longitude.  My location in San Jose is approximately 37.3 degrees latitude.

The south to north gradient is as expected and would be the same whether on a spherical or flat earth model.  The west to east gradient however needs to be factored into the correct equation for a flat circular disk in order to determine the latitude at which this gradient would occur.  That equation is gradient = 55 = (((90-deg lat)/90)*3959*3.14159^2)/360 and solving for latitude gives 44.4 degrees.  This means that while I am at 37.3 deg lat in San Jose on the Flat Earth as my primary location, I am also at 44.4 deg lat on the Flat Earth as my secondary location, which is just a few miles from Sisters Oregon.  As remarkable as this is, to realize that on the flat earth I am actually at two distinct places at the same time, it gets even more remarkable as we apply more principles of flat earth theory to the problem.


Back on the equinox of September 23, 2017 I took some of my own data where I live and found it to be consistent with what one would expect based on looking up the various parameters on the web.  Although I did not travel personally to the equator, I am relying on generally accepted parameters available on how one would experience the equinox there.  Based on this, and the flat earth assumption, I was able to determine that the sun was 5322 miles above the surface of the flat earth at the equator on the equinox.  Based on where I saw the sun in San Jose on the equinox, and the flat earth assumption, I was able to determine that I am 4054 miles north of the equator where I am in San Jose, CA, which would put me at 4054/69.1 = 58.7 deg latitude. Incredibly then, this puts me up in the northern part of British Columbia Canada, a few miles from Fort Nelson BC.  So this would be my tertiary location.

So now I have established that according to flat earth theory, when I am present in San Jose, CA on the flat earth as my primary location, I am actually simultaneously present in two other distinct places on the flat earth, at the same longitude, but at two distinct places further north in latitude, one placing me in Oregon and the other placing me in Canada.


Within conventional physics, science, and mathematics, when different lines of reasoning and logic lead to different conclusions, called by those in the discipline contradictions, theories are often considered to be refuted.  But within flat earth science, also known by some as Biblically Based Science (BBS or Double B S), these apparent contradictions of the theory are actually viewed as further confirmation of the theory.  This is what is so beautiful and elegant about flat earth science, the more that it is seemingly refuted by conventional scientists and others, the more it is actually established as the absolute truth from God and His word the Bible, which cannot lie.  Satan is so clever to concoct so many contradictions to deceive us, but we know his game, as God’s word the Bible tells us, he is the father of lies.  The more Satan lies, the stronger our faith in the immovable flat earth becomes, so that the truth of the flat earth is irrefutable.


Many flat earth advocates and believers, having heard of these discoveries for the first time, are saying that they always felt like they were in multiple places at the same time, and now they are comforted to know that they were not crazy after all, that Biblical science confirms what they always knew in their hearts to be true.


Future possibilities and ramifications of this research are far reaching and possibly limitless.  That tri-location has been proven on the flat earth, multi-location is not ruled out. As further advances are made in flat earth theory, the limit may even be beyond the firmament, or even beyond the firmament of firmaments.

Comments, feedback, questions, further insights are sought from fellow flat earth researchers, establishment scientists, and others, as a period of peer review is conducted.  After a period of peer review extending until the end of calendar year 2017, a report will be made on the results of the peer review, and its ramifications for the future of flat earth research in the twenty-first century and the ages to come.

Where on earth on The Flat Earth will the Flat Earth International Conference 2017 be held?

I pose this question to all within the current Flat Earth Theory advocacy movement, especially those who will be presenting at and attending the upcoming Flat Earth International Conference to be held November 9-10, 2017 in Raleigh, North Carolina.  I have already posed this same question to three of the speakers to be at the conference, in private communications, Rob Skiba and Mark Sargent (myself having been a purchaser and reader of their books), and also, Bob Knodel, but so far, have gotten no responses.

Can you inform the World Community of the coordinates of latitude and longitude for Raleigh, NC on the flat earth (in particular 201 Harrison Oaks Blvd, Cary, NC 27513), the location of the upcoming Flat Earth International Conference?  It would seem very odd indeed if flat earth advocates could not even tell the world where on the flat earth they are holding their flat earth conference.  I realize that flat earth theory is quite primitive at this point, but could you at least determine where on the flat earth map Raleigh, NC is within a 100 mile radius?  This seems like a very legitimate and fair question.

The coordinates on the spherical earth map for 201 Harrison Oaks Blvd, Cary, NC are 35.833, -78.772.

The World Community eagerly awaits The Flat Earth Movement’s answer to this very simple and important question.